This topic causes no end of confusion. Pinstripe 1 0 3 download free.
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One of the main confusers is the Federal 'PB' designation…BPI uses Federal 'PB' to refer to a particular 'plastic basewad' hull that USED to be available and had a lot of tests done on it due to it's large internal volume– good for steel shot loads. Recently, BPI has been able to buy and resell these Federal PB hulls. They're NOT the same as Federal Gold Medal hulls, another large-volume hull without a separate basewad that is great for steel loads. In fact, several internet posters have reported that a lot of the BPI listed steel shot loads for the Federal Plastic Base hulls, will not fit in a Federal Gold Medal hull. One guy also reported pressure testing a couple of the Federal Plastic Base steel loads from BPI's loading manuals, using the Federal Gold Medal hulls as a direct replacement, and depending on the load, pressures increased from 2,500 psi to 8,500 psi over what was listed with the Federal PB hulls. Clearly it's worth knowing which hull is which and not assuming they're all the same!
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In Apr16, to make matters worse, Federal began selling a re-branded Rio hull via Walmart, as Federal 'FIELD & TARGET Multi-Purpose Load', it's a maroon shell with a white plastic basewad– but it's NOT what is meant by 'Federal PB' or 'Federal Disc Base' which refer to a much larger hull actually made by Federal many years ago– this will for sure cause problems with folks not realizing the new Federal is a Rio hull. And the hull is the same maroon color as the similarly priced 'TopGun' target loads with fiber basewads– a guy might buy low-cost maroon Federal target loads and assume they're TopGun hulls. https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/new-federal-field-target-multi-purpose-load-are-rio-hulls-cutaway/
Here's my 'expose' on which hulls are which.
Several threads recently where folks were questioning which hulls are actually being referred to by various reloading manual names caused me to decide to go right to the actual source, the reloading manual publisher themselves, and ask them directly what EXACTLY their name refers to. I only did the 12ga hulls, so this post is 12ga only, which will reduce my typing.
Guess what? THEY were confused too, and were unsure without looking at load data, referencing Lyman's, and in the end somewhat guessing! Federal cases are the worst offenders. Let's start!
ALLIANT STEEL RELOADING DATA
I called Vista Outdoors, parent company for Alliant, got switched to Alliant, and got Reloading Tech representative 'Duane' at Alliant– a guy most of you will have talked to if you've called Alliant with a reloading question recently. I want to start out saying that Duane was very helpful, spent a good bit of time with me looking at data in Lyman's drawings and also crosschecking the load data before he commented on the hulls. It's important to remember that all the 'old data' like Alliant and Hodgdon and RSI, generated 10 years or more ago, referred to hulls and marketing names and brands that may not even exist anymore– it's really easy to lose track of which hull is meant, thus this thread.
In the current online reloading manual for Alliant, if you click on '12ga Steel Shot' here are the choices you get the following list of possible hulls. I went through them with Duane.
12-Gauge, 2 3/4 -in. Fed Gold Medal
12-Gauge, 2 3/4 -in. Rem Nitro Mag
12-Gauge, 3 -in. Fed 0.090 Intergral BW
12-Gauge, 3 -in. Fed 7/16 Paper BW
12-Gauge, 3 -in. Fed Hi-Power 7/16 BW
12-Gauge, 3 -in. Rem Nitro Steel
12-Gauge, 3 1/2 -in. Fed Intergral BW
12-Gauge, 3 1/2 -in. Rem Plastic SP
————–
The green colored ones up above, Federal Gold Medal and Fed 7/16 Paper BW are easy and self descriptive– can't mess them up.
'Federal Integral BW'
However, when I asked about the '3 -in. Fed 0.090 Intergral BW' and '3 1/2 -in. Fed Intergral BW', there was some confusion. At first he said those were the shells that said 'Premium' on the side, and he specifically said it was not like the Fed Gold Medal (single extruded piece hull)… when I asked what specifically the bottom looked like, was it one-piece, or two pieces and if so was the wad plastic like cheddite or paper, he wasn't sure. I had to press him saying that printing on the side when the entire BRAND NAME was now 'Federal Premium' wasn't sufficient, since they didn't LIST hulls by 'printing on the side'. He ended up referencing Lyman's drawings! His final verdict on it was a reversal of his initial statement– in fact, the 'integral BW' WAS a single piece extruded hull, kind of like the Fed GM hull except in 3″ and 3.5″ but no real thickening of material at the bottom from the side thickness, and NOT a plastic disc at bottom or a paper disc. Despite Vista Outdoors owning both Alliant AND Federal Premium ammo, he could not tell me specifically what current Federal shell I could buy on the shelf actually matched that description. So I am still left in a bit of a quandary, as I am not aware of any single piece 3″ or 3.5″ Fed hulls, all I've seen have a plastic disc at bottom or fiber BW, produced in the reifenhauser 'tube crimped around a base' method–but I questioned him on this three times and he was firm.
If anyone knows what 3″ or (or 3.5″ but he felt they weren't produced now) fed hulls are single piece 'integral 0.090′ basewad' please post! Reference page 30 in Lyman's 5th for the drawing.
'3 -in. Fed 7/16 Paper BW' vs. '3 -in. Fed Hi-Power 7/16 BW'. I asked if these were both the same, and if so why they were listed as a separate hull type… obviously reloaders will be confused because they're LISTED as different, but look ALMOST the same, except… one of them has specifically removed the word 'Paper' and added 'Hi Power'. Duane wasn't sure, and had to reference the load data for each one, which being different wads was inconclusive. In the end, he GUESSED that they were in fact the same Fiber or Paper basewad hull, and that they were just named different because the testing had been done at two different facilities (Radford for one, can't remember where he said the other). In any case, he thought they were the same hull, had no idea why they were listed as separate categories, and admitted it was a guess. So again, not a HUGE warm-fuzzy as a reloader trying to be sure! Upon inspection, turns out they use one name for SAM1 wad loads, the other name is when using MM1230 loads. I'd say it's the same hull.
2 3/4 -in. Sqlpro for sqlite 2019 07 08 04. Rem Nitro Mag, 3 -in. Rem Nitro Steel, 3 1/2 -in. Rem Plastic SP
When I asked about these, Duane had said he was referring to Lyman's 5th drawings; 'Nitro Mag' and 'Nitro Steel' are actual brands (or were), should say that on the hull, or match the drawings in Lyman's. All have a separate plastic disc basewad, either yellow or black shown on pages 29, 30, or 33 of Lyman's.
BALLISTIC PRODUCTS INCORPORATED (BPI)
I called and had to get a return call from them to ensure the guy who put the wadsheets in question together could answer. I ended up talking to Jonathan, who was extremely knowledgeable and knew essentially the full history of every 'hull name' I asked about, including why it was called that in original loading sources, what commercial loads it originally came from and what matched it now– for both their hulls AND everything I'd asked Alliant about! In my opinion, his answers were definitive and correct, and I will list all of them and consider them 'the correct source' in the future. I'll type a summary of what he said on each.
1. BPI has a 'glossary' of reloading abbreviations it includes in all it's books and some of it's wad sheets. In that glossary, they define 'Federal PB' as PLASTIC BASEWAD and 'Federal FB' as 'Fiber or wound paper basewad'.
2. I asked about the single instance in all of reloading hull names of 'Federal Disc Base' that they use in their LBC43 wad sheet. Swinsian 2 0 2 – music manager and player app. Jonathan checked with the guy who put that wad sheet together just to be sure. 'Disc Base' means PLASTIC BASEWAD. That wadsheet is one of their oldest ones, and Jonathan covered the history of the nomenclature. Before reifenhauser style (cheddite) 3 piece hulls came into vogue, there were just two styles of plastic hull: a fiber base made out of spun paper (FB, paper-basewad, 7/16″ paper basewad, Internal Spun Basewad), and one-piece compression formed like old Win AA and Rem STS/Premier/GameClub. When cheddite-style 3-piece hulls (wall, plastic disc basewad, metal head bonding the two) became popular, they used the term 'Disc Basewad' to differentiate it from one-piece plastic hulls like AA and Rem, rather than 'plastic basewad' which might have been confusing. Jonathan said there were many examples of the use of 'Disc basewad' being the popular nomenclature for reifenhauser/cheddite style, but generally not used now. When they put the LBC43 wadsheet together and used 'Federal Disc Base', they meant the plastic 3-piece.
3. I asked him about the Alliant nomenclature (see above). Concerning 'integral basewad' and '0.090 integral basewad', he knew exactly what it was–a SINGLE PIECE hull that had essentially NO basewad thickness, the walls just come in at almost the same thickness to cover the metal head, which is essentially the basewad. He knew exactly which hulls had been produced this way and listed them off, but basically said only a single 3″ version is now being produced by Federal and used in some of their specialty loads, perhaps some buckshot. He referenced me to the bottom drawing on page 28 of Lyman's 5th, and the top drawing on page 30. Basically you won't find these hulls unless you realllly search, but it's NOT the 3-piece current style they use for most loads nor the Fed Gold Medal hull.
Edit 10/24/16, BPI is selling a 12ga 2.75″ Integral Basewad version of this hull, it's clear and has a huge volume. When I called again to ask which reloading data to use for this, they were adamant that all places 'Federal PB' shows up, it's this integral basewad high volume hull, which looks like a Fed Gold Medal but is clear and has higher volume.
4. Concerning the Federal 7/16″ Paper Basewad vs. 7/16″ Hi-Power basewad, he confirmed they are the same and whipped off the history of Hi-Power branding for Federal and which loads were so labeled, in a very convincing and erudite manner. They ought to be one category on the Alliant website.
HODGDON
Hodgdon only lists 4 sorts of hulls for steel reloading, and only in 12ga. They are quite succinct with the types:
2-3/4″ Federal Gold Medal Plastic Shells << self explanatory
2-3/4″ Remington STS/Nitro 27/or GunClub shells << self explanatory, one-piece hull with internal slight taper
2-3/4″ Winchester compression Formed AA and HS type plastic shells << self explanatory, NOT the 'universal' or cheddite style hull!
2-3/4″ Fiocchi, Victory, PMC, and NobelSport plastic shells (low basewad) << I am unsure if any of these include cheddite hulls, but this is the data I'd use for a cheddite hull and the many folks that use cheddite (Kent, HeviMetal, Herters, etc.) with perhaps a powder drop to be safe.
Hopefully this will help some folks who also have/had questions about what specific hulls they mean!
Dave
Regarding the 3″ off the shelf Federal shells that might be loaded with the PB hulls. They are from back in the day the federal premium line. There was federal classic and fed premium. Alliant's Duane said they were the 'premium', and it was when I kept pressing him to define what NOW was that 3″ integral basewad hull that it got confusing. It's understandable that not even the reloading data sources like Alliant are 100% sure what's what, because once they publish the data with a particular name (like Federal .090″ Integral Basewad), they CAN'T really change it later or it will confuse more folks… then Federal changes their marketing name from 'premium' to 'Gold Medal' and TopGun, changes their entire ammo line to 'Federal Premium', starts putting stuff in reifenhauser hulls with plastic disc basewads etc… only folks that have been involved with the industry and testing for 30 years will remember and be able to follow what hulls USED to be indicated.
Some folks have discussed just using the Federal GM hull for the Federal PB hull. Here's my look at the reloading data on that.
Federal = Federal Hull
Federal (Paper) = Federal Paper Hull
Federal FB = Federal Hull (Fiber Basewad)
Federal PB = Federal Hull (Plastic Basewad)
2^12 Power
There are several examples in BPI Advantages that I've noticed, in the 20ga, where the exact same recipe with only the hull being different, results in a 2000 psi pressure difference. Usually this is when going from the cheddite 2.75″ 20ga to the roomier Rio, the pressures drop about 2000 psi.
What this indicates is that the small hull volume difference between a cheddite and Rio is enough to make huge pressure differences; for this reason, I never use 'other' Federal hulls like the FB or GM, when a Federal PB (MUCH roomier) is called for, as I don't want to be surprised by a 2000psi style increase; and I try to post a correction when I see that it looks like someone might use the much smaller FB in place of the PB.
Filtering my spreadsheet for just Fed GM and Fed PB hulls, then sorting my excel file for payload, then powder, then wad, then primer, then powder grains, I can find pairs of loads all the same except for one is the GM hull and one is the PB hull. Powder charge may be different; that along with the resulting pressure give some clues. Here's a few I found:
![Disk Disk](https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61x5oZYy0zL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
In Apr16, to make matters worse, Federal began selling a re-branded Rio hull via Walmart, as Federal 'FIELD & TARGET Multi-Purpose Load', it's a maroon shell with a white plastic basewad– but it's NOT what is meant by 'Federal PB' or 'Federal Disc Base' which refer to a much larger hull actually made by Federal many years ago– this will for sure cause problems with folks not realizing the new Federal is a Rio hull. And the hull is the same maroon color as the similarly priced 'TopGun' target loads with fiber basewads– a guy might buy low-cost maroon Federal target loads and assume they're TopGun hulls. https://pipesf16.wordpress.com/new-federal-field-target-multi-purpose-load-are-rio-hulls-cutaway/
Here's my 'expose' on which hulls are which.
Several threads recently where folks were questioning which hulls are actually being referred to by various reloading manual names caused me to decide to go right to the actual source, the reloading manual publisher themselves, and ask them directly what EXACTLY their name refers to. I only did the 12ga hulls, so this post is 12ga only, which will reduce my typing.
Guess what? THEY were confused too, and were unsure without looking at load data, referencing Lyman's, and in the end somewhat guessing! Federal cases are the worst offenders. Let's start!
ALLIANT STEEL RELOADING DATA
I called Vista Outdoors, parent company for Alliant, got switched to Alliant, and got Reloading Tech representative 'Duane' at Alliant– a guy most of you will have talked to if you've called Alliant with a reloading question recently. I want to start out saying that Duane was very helpful, spent a good bit of time with me looking at data in Lyman's drawings and also crosschecking the load data before he commented on the hulls. It's important to remember that all the 'old data' like Alliant and Hodgdon and RSI, generated 10 years or more ago, referred to hulls and marketing names and brands that may not even exist anymore– it's really easy to lose track of which hull is meant, thus this thread.
In the current online reloading manual for Alliant, if you click on '12ga Steel Shot' here are the choices you get the following list of possible hulls. I went through them with Duane.
12-Gauge, 2 3/4 -in. Fed Gold Medal
12-Gauge, 2 3/4 -in. Rem Nitro Mag
12-Gauge, 3 -in. Fed 0.090 Intergral BW
12-Gauge, 3 -in. Fed 7/16 Paper BW
12-Gauge, 3 -in. Fed Hi-Power 7/16 BW
12-Gauge, 3 -in. Rem Nitro Steel
12-Gauge, 3 1/2 -in. Fed Intergral BW
12-Gauge, 3 1/2 -in. Rem Plastic SP
————–
The green colored ones up above, Federal Gold Medal and Fed 7/16 Paper BW are easy and self descriptive– can't mess them up.
'Federal Integral BW'
However, when I asked about the '3 -in. Fed 0.090 Intergral BW' and '3 1/2 -in. Fed Intergral BW', there was some confusion. At first he said those were the shells that said 'Premium' on the side, and he specifically said it was not like the Fed Gold Medal (single extruded piece hull)… when I asked what specifically the bottom looked like, was it one-piece, or two pieces and if so was the wad plastic like cheddite or paper, he wasn't sure. I had to press him saying that printing on the side when the entire BRAND NAME was now 'Federal Premium' wasn't sufficient, since they didn't LIST hulls by 'printing on the side'. He ended up referencing Lyman's drawings! His final verdict on it was a reversal of his initial statement– in fact, the 'integral BW' WAS a single piece extruded hull, kind of like the Fed GM hull except in 3″ and 3.5″ but no real thickening of material at the bottom from the side thickness, and NOT a plastic disc at bottom or a paper disc. Despite Vista Outdoors owning both Alliant AND Federal Premium ammo, he could not tell me specifically what current Federal shell I could buy on the shelf actually matched that description. So I am still left in a bit of a quandary, as I am not aware of any single piece 3″ or 3.5″ Fed hulls, all I've seen have a plastic disc at bottom or fiber BW, produced in the reifenhauser 'tube crimped around a base' method–but I questioned him on this three times and he was firm.
If anyone knows what 3″ or (or 3.5″ but he felt they weren't produced now) fed hulls are single piece 'integral 0.090′ basewad' please post! Reference page 30 in Lyman's 5th for the drawing.
'3 -in. Fed 7/16 Paper BW' vs. '3 -in. Fed Hi-Power 7/16 BW'. I asked if these were both the same, and if so why they were listed as a separate hull type… obviously reloaders will be confused because they're LISTED as different, but look ALMOST the same, except… one of them has specifically removed the word 'Paper' and added 'Hi Power'. Duane wasn't sure, and had to reference the load data for each one, which being different wads was inconclusive. In the end, he GUESSED that they were in fact the same Fiber or Paper basewad hull, and that they were just named different because the testing had been done at two different facilities (Radford for one, can't remember where he said the other). In any case, he thought they were the same hull, had no idea why they were listed as separate categories, and admitted it was a guess. So again, not a HUGE warm-fuzzy as a reloader trying to be sure! Upon inspection, turns out they use one name for SAM1 wad loads, the other name is when using MM1230 loads. I'd say it's the same hull.
2 3/4 -in. Sqlpro for sqlite 2019 07 08 04. Rem Nitro Mag, 3 -in. Rem Nitro Steel, 3 1/2 -in. Rem Plastic SP
When I asked about these, Duane had said he was referring to Lyman's 5th drawings; 'Nitro Mag' and 'Nitro Steel' are actual brands (or were), should say that on the hull, or match the drawings in Lyman's. All have a separate plastic disc basewad, either yellow or black shown on pages 29, 30, or 33 of Lyman's.
BALLISTIC PRODUCTS INCORPORATED (BPI)
I called and had to get a return call from them to ensure the guy who put the wadsheets in question together could answer. I ended up talking to Jonathan, who was extremely knowledgeable and knew essentially the full history of every 'hull name' I asked about, including why it was called that in original loading sources, what commercial loads it originally came from and what matched it now– for both their hulls AND everything I'd asked Alliant about! In my opinion, his answers were definitive and correct, and I will list all of them and consider them 'the correct source' in the future. I'll type a summary of what he said on each.
1. BPI has a 'glossary' of reloading abbreviations it includes in all it's books and some of it's wad sheets. In that glossary, they define 'Federal PB' as PLASTIC BASEWAD and 'Federal FB' as 'Fiber or wound paper basewad'.
2. I asked about the single instance in all of reloading hull names of 'Federal Disc Base' that they use in their LBC43 wad sheet. Swinsian 2 0 2 – music manager and player app. Jonathan checked with the guy who put that wad sheet together just to be sure. 'Disc Base' means PLASTIC BASEWAD. That wadsheet is one of their oldest ones, and Jonathan covered the history of the nomenclature. Before reifenhauser style (cheddite) 3 piece hulls came into vogue, there were just two styles of plastic hull: a fiber base made out of spun paper (FB, paper-basewad, 7/16″ paper basewad, Internal Spun Basewad), and one-piece compression formed like old Win AA and Rem STS/Premier/GameClub. When cheddite-style 3-piece hulls (wall, plastic disc basewad, metal head bonding the two) became popular, they used the term 'Disc Basewad' to differentiate it from one-piece plastic hulls like AA and Rem, rather than 'plastic basewad' which might have been confusing. Jonathan said there were many examples of the use of 'Disc basewad' being the popular nomenclature for reifenhauser/cheddite style, but generally not used now. When they put the LBC43 wadsheet together and used 'Federal Disc Base', they meant the plastic 3-piece.
3. I asked him about the Alliant nomenclature (see above). Concerning 'integral basewad' and '0.090 integral basewad', he knew exactly what it was–a SINGLE PIECE hull that had essentially NO basewad thickness, the walls just come in at almost the same thickness to cover the metal head, which is essentially the basewad. He knew exactly which hulls had been produced this way and listed them off, but basically said only a single 3″ version is now being produced by Federal and used in some of their specialty loads, perhaps some buckshot. He referenced me to the bottom drawing on page 28 of Lyman's 5th, and the top drawing on page 30. Basically you won't find these hulls unless you realllly search, but it's NOT the 3-piece current style they use for most loads nor the Fed Gold Medal hull.
Edit 10/24/16, BPI is selling a 12ga 2.75″ Integral Basewad version of this hull, it's clear and has a huge volume. When I called again to ask which reloading data to use for this, they were adamant that all places 'Federal PB' shows up, it's this integral basewad high volume hull, which looks like a Fed Gold Medal but is clear and has higher volume.
4. Concerning the Federal 7/16″ Paper Basewad vs. 7/16″ Hi-Power basewad, he confirmed they are the same and whipped off the history of Hi-Power branding for Federal and which loads were so labeled, in a very convincing and erudite manner. They ought to be one category on the Alliant website.
HODGDON
Hodgdon only lists 4 sorts of hulls for steel reloading, and only in 12ga. They are quite succinct with the types:
2-3/4″ Federal Gold Medal Plastic Shells << self explanatory
2-3/4″ Remington STS/Nitro 27/or GunClub shells << self explanatory, one-piece hull with internal slight taper
2-3/4″ Winchester compression Formed AA and HS type plastic shells << self explanatory, NOT the 'universal' or cheddite style hull!
2-3/4″ Fiocchi, Victory, PMC, and NobelSport plastic shells (low basewad) << I am unsure if any of these include cheddite hulls, but this is the data I'd use for a cheddite hull and the many folks that use cheddite (Kent, HeviMetal, Herters, etc.) with perhaps a powder drop to be safe.
Hopefully this will help some folks who also have/had questions about what specific hulls they mean!
Dave
Regarding the 3″ off the shelf Federal shells that might be loaded with the PB hulls. They are from back in the day the federal premium line. There was federal classic and fed premium. Alliant's Duane said they were the 'premium', and it was when I kept pressing him to define what NOW was that 3″ integral basewad hull that it got confusing. It's understandable that not even the reloading data sources like Alliant are 100% sure what's what, because once they publish the data with a particular name (like Federal .090″ Integral Basewad), they CAN'T really change it later or it will confuse more folks… then Federal changes their marketing name from 'premium' to 'Gold Medal' and TopGun, changes their entire ammo line to 'Federal Premium', starts putting stuff in reifenhauser hulls with plastic disc basewads etc… only folks that have been involved with the industry and testing for 30 years will remember and be able to follow what hulls USED to be indicated.
Some folks have discussed just using the Federal GM hull for the Federal PB hull. Here's my look at the reloading data on that.
Federal = Federal Hull
Federal (Paper) = Federal Paper Hull
Federal FB = Federal Hull (Fiber Basewad)
Federal PB = Federal Hull (Plastic Basewad)
2^12 Power
There are several examples in BPI Advantages that I've noticed, in the 20ga, where the exact same recipe with only the hull being different, results in a 2000 psi pressure difference. Usually this is when going from the cheddite 2.75″ 20ga to the roomier Rio, the pressures drop about 2000 psi.
What this indicates is that the small hull volume difference between a cheddite and Rio is enough to make huge pressure differences; for this reason, I never use 'other' Federal hulls like the FB or GM, when a Federal PB (MUCH roomier) is called for, as I don't want to be surprised by a 2000psi style increase; and I try to post a correction when I see that it looks like someone might use the much smaller FB in place of the PB.
Filtering my spreadsheet for just Fed GM and Fed PB hulls, then sorting my excel file for payload, then powder, then wad, then primer, then powder grains, I can find pairs of loads all the same except for one is the GM hull and one is the PB hull. Powder charge may be different; that along with the resulting pressure give some clues. Here's a few I found:
Fed GM hull, REDUCE 0.5gr of HS7 powder, but the pressure still INCREASES 400psi vs. the heavier load in the PB hull.
37 grains of Asteel in the PB hull, SAME PRESSURE as 33 grains of Asteel in the GM hull, all else equal.
Fed GM hull, REDUCE 1gr of 4756 powder, but the pressure still INCREASES 700psi vs. the heavier load in the PB hull.
Fed GM hull, REDUCE 5gr of BlueDot powder, but the pressure still INCREASES 1400psi vs. the heavier load in the PB hull.
Fed GM hull, REDUCE 6gr of Asteel powder, but the pressure still INCREASES 800psi vs. the heavier load in the PB hull.
There are a few more examples where the powder load of Asteel is increased 6 grains or so from the GM to the PB hull, and pressures only go up 500psi or so; I didn't see a single example of the GM hull exhibiting lower pressures than the PB hull.
Clear Disk 2 12 Gauge For Sale
I wouldn't interchange them. Edit– see my red edit above 10/24/16 with BPI saying what the Fed PB were.